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By Rashme Sehgal Trafficking is almost as profitable as the arms and drugs trade, says legendary women's rights activist and writer Gloria Steinem
 Gloria Steinem has been a supporter of women's rights and progressive issues from the early-'60s. An activist, she was one of the first women in America to co-own and edit the prestigious MS magazine that talked about sexist and racist standards in the US establishment.
At 72, Steinem was recently on her third visit to India . She took time off to talk about her growing concerns about trafficking of women and children, and the rightist propaganda in the US against feminists and feminism. Why are women scared to call themselves feminists today? There are two reasons for this fear. They are often not sure what this word means. The second one is that they really believe in the traditional position of women, for fear that if they do not subscribe to this position it will bring them punishment. And it does bring punishment. If you say you want equal pay for yourself, you are for reform, which is still acceptable. But when you declare that you are a 'feminist', you are talking about a very basic, very fundamental change that many find threatening. Bush and Reagan have added to this confusion by turning this, and words like 'liberalism', into bad words. What is your definition of being a feminist? I still believe that a feminist is someone who believes in full social, economic and political equality for men and women. What do you think has been the biggest success of the feminist movement? I think it has helped raise the consciousness of women. It has also helped introduce them to the idea that they can enjoy reproductive freedom, whether they want to have kids or not. Would you ever have anticipated that the women's movement would have made so much progress? Twenty years ago, I would have been surprised to find the movement so popular. But at the same time, I would have wanted that the government and business and education would have changed our lives much more. Take the example of abortion. Although 70% of women support abortion, the opposition remains active. So, has there been a backlash against feminism? There has been a backlash from the ultra right-wing fundamentalist, whether religious or secular. If women gain control over their reproduction, it would mean governing their own bodies. This has huge repercussions for patriarchy, nationalism and capitalism. If we look at the past, at the suffragette and abolitionist movements led by women, both of these were attempts to gain legal identities for women of all races. It took them a century to give us our legal identity. We have succeeded in making institutional changes because of which we are now facing a backlash from the right-wing. But we cannot overlook the fact that capitalists use women as cheap labour. The major religious and economic forces are opposed to feminist ideology. The cult of masculinity is also opposed to women's equality. It's not about morality but about clear-cut shared interests. Whether we make progress depends on each of us, and change has to be from the bottom up. Are the forces of patriarchy becoming stronger? All these forces have to be fought. Let me tell you that the electoral system is not where the change starts -- it usually starts in communities from the bottom up. It's very important to try and become more and more representative. Of course, there are a lot of problems. It now costs a lot of money to fight an election. Our own system is not very participatory, but in India 70% of the electorate votes even though this population can face a lot of difficulties in casting their vote, and a large number of them are illiterate. You have been fighting against trafficking. Women all over the world are working on the issue of sex trafficking. There is more slavery today than there was in the 1800s. People are being enslaved across borders, both for labour and for sex. Trafficking is almost as profitable as arms and drugs. The amount of investment needed in this trade is very little, as it costs less to buy a person than to buy drugs and arms. In the US , women fighting this slavery call themselves the 'new abolitionists'. Look at what is happening, what kind of system is being created. Just look at the term 'sex worker' -- the term was invented in all goodwill but it has come to have such horrific connotations. Women are being purchased from Russia , the Philippines , Mexico and being brought into the US without a passport. Children are being bought over the Internet and can be collected in New Jersey or some other part of the US . This whole thing of sexual tourism has groups of tourists going to different countries to indulge in 'sexual tours'. I am working with a group called Equality Now which is trying to halt this kind of trafficking. There is a major debate in India about prostitution being legalised. Do you support such a move? I would support the decriminalisation of prostitution rather than its legalisation. In Nevada, they have legalised prostitution and have used that as a pretext to get women off welfare. Look at the Dutch model where they have legalised it. Where has it ended up? The whole industry has become hugely criminalised. Sweden is the only country that has succeeded in reducing trafficking because they are looking at both the demand and supply aspects of this trade. Women may defend sex work, but no one wants it for their daughters. Unfortunately, both the state and NGOs are becoming pimps. Women must be given viable economic alternatives. There will always be some percentage of women who want to become call girls, so I'm not for telling women what to do. I am for giving choices to women. You have also been emphasising the need for women to become economically stronger. Yes. Women do a great deal of unpaid work in their homes, whether it be raising children or taking care of elderly parents. Their work needs to be valued. This work needs to be counted as productive work. Also, so far we have been concerned about equal pay. But now I believe women need to own their own businesses, however small they may be. Men also need to raise children and work in the home, otherwise women just end up having two jobs. It's all very well to say that men should help in the house, but many of them do not accept this whole philosophy of feminism. There is a whole circle of qualities that men need to subscribe to as well. The majority of them are confined to the masculine qualities, and we as women are confined to the feminine qualities. What we are saying is that men have every right to be creative, express themselves, take care of children, as do women. This kind of ghettoisation must end. Women in India do a vast variety of work. Indeed they do. But that does not mean they should be perceived as a subordinate race. When we talk about the 'feminisation of poverty' we are also insisting that there should be a change in the 'masculinisation of wealth'. Casteism takes many forms and we need to look at all this in as objective a manner as possible. Sometimes one gets the feeling that this is going to be a long haul"¦ We need to come together and share our experiences. We are communal creatures and we cannot do it all by ourselves. It is difficult for a woman who is isolated in her office or factory. But if we find three or four or six people who share the same thoughts, we can develop this into a kind of community support. Once we develop this, it will make all the difference. A lot of feminists expressed apprehension when you decided to get married. I don't see any contradiction between marriage and feminism though others may have seen it. I told people that I hadn't changed (after deciding to marry). It was the institution of marriage that had changed. How politically active are you? I have been emphasising all along that if we are not involved in decision-making, then we will end up ceding more and more of our powers. One vote does, in fact, count. I spent some months campaigning during the last election, and some of the good candidates won by just a few hundred votes. What do you think of Hillary Clinton as the first woman president of the US ? Our president (Bush) is of such destructiveness that just about anyone would be better than him! About Hillary Clinton, I would say that she has had eight years of training on the job. Surveys show that 80% of the US would vote for a woman president. Also, we may not agree on a great deal but one can still have a discussion with her. Are you working on another book? I am working on a book of essays about the shared themes of original culture that existed for 95% of human history. It meant living in balance with nature, and also that men and women lived in harmony with one another. The last 5,000 years have been an experiment that has failed. The current title of the book is Home Sick . What do you think of India ? I came to India first in '57. I felt oddly at home here from the very first day. During my first visit, I felt the people here were much less confident than they are today. Today, it's a joy to see just how confident people have become. It's like everything here is fusion. InfoChange News & Features, March 2007
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